Call —
Transcript
0:00 Caller: Hi Jaredis Owen from Helix, how are you?
0:00 You: Hello?
0:05 You: Hello, Owens, you must have my notes.
0:07 Caller: Yes, yeah, that's why I was calling you.
0:11 You: Splendid.
0:12 Caller: Yeah, very, very good.
0:12 You: Splendid.
0:14 You: I found the, uh, my lack of my lack of biology.
0:15 Caller: Thanks for the feedback and very positive from your end.
0:19 Caller: But where's your head at with it?
0:23 Caller: If they're inviting you to the next round on the call, it's amazing.
0:30 Caller: No, it's not at all.
0:30 You: knowledge at this level to be a little intimidating, so it's unclear to what extent that
0:34 You: is truly necessary.
0:36 You: I haven't assured me it wasn't, but having gone through their challenge, I'm not convinced
0:47 You: that's true.
0:49 You: So the challenge was to develop a search engine that could, through the entire corpus of
0:54 You: data they have, surfaced the relevant documents about genes and data.
1:00 Caller: Yeah.
1:00 You: diseases and the ontologies surrounding each.
1:05 You: And it's hard for me to make a judgment about any of those when I see a string of
1:07 Caller: Right.
1:08 Caller: Right. I'm with you.
1:10 You: characters and it looks like a CAPTCHA instead of an actual molecule.
1:15 Caller: Right. I'm with you.
1:18 You: So I'm happy to chat with David and move on to the next round.
1:21 Caller: Yeah.
1:25 You: That's something I'll certainly surface with him.
1:29 You: But that,
1:30 Caller: Well, when I've begun my search, when I've begun my search, they specifically said they didn't need someone with sort of biological background.
1:30 You: At least that's from my hands at.
1:38 Caller: They were more keen on someone from, who has worked for matter, which is obviously why I got in contact with you.
1:45 Caller: That was the type of individual that they wanted that sort of got this large-scale experience, which obviously you have.
1:56 Caller: So I dealt, I believe the next round is the final round as well.
2:00 Caller: So I doubt they would be bringing you in for that if they didn't think that you could do the role.
2:00 You: Thank you.
2:05 Caller: They've seen an awful lot of people in this position as well.
2:08 Caller: I haven't had the role for a crazy amount of time, but obviously really listened to what it is that they wanted for this individual.
2:17 Caller: And obviously, this is why I got in contact with you, because I believe you're a good fit, and obviously they do if they're inviting you for a final.
2:26 Caller: I think that they prefer it to be a face-to-face.
2:30 Caller: obviously if it's a final chat.
2:30 You: I am. I'm in Long Island City just over the East River.
2:32 Caller: You're all based in New York, though, Jed, aren't you?
2:35 Caller: Yeah.
2:37 Caller: Okay. Well, I'll touch base with them, but yeah, look, I wouldn't...
2:38 You: I've been.
2:39 You: I've been Long Island City just over the East River.
2:43 Caller: He's always said to me that biological experience isn't needed,
2:47 Caller: so I would be very surprised if that was to change at any point,
2:50 Caller: and obviously he's reiterated that to you as well, isn't he?
2:54 Caller: Yeah.
2:56 You: Ivan mentioned it.
2:58 You: Well, I don't.
2:59 Caller: Yeah. Similar.
2:59 You: know what your other candidate's experience have been, but at least you have mine.
3:04 Caller: Yeah, yeah, I'll be honest. I've only got one other person. This is full transparency.
3:08 Caller: He's interviewing on Wednesday, and it's extremely similar to what it is that you've done, XMETA, that sort of line, because that's the brief that I got from Ivan, which is why I've spoke to you.
3:23 Caller: Obviously, if he then changes it to need someone with biological, then that's a whole new search for me, but he's not going to do.
3:29 Caller: that. He would have done that by now after speaking to you twice. So with all of that in mind, Jed, obviously, I always have these conversations along the way with candidates just because, just to keep us all on the same page, to be honest.
3:29 You: Thank you.
3:43 Caller: And if you was to sort of get an offer at this stage from them after your conversations, let's say they, they sort of reiterate that you don't need biological and then they go through a little bit more of what it is with them and you meet them and you really like them.
3:59 Caller: they were to offer, do you think that that would be something that you would accept at this point?
3:59 You: that's something I, well, the biology part is what I need to, to dig deeper on,
4:03 Caller: Or?
4:09 You: because I acknowledge it's not, like, direct biological knowledge isn't maybe necessary.
4:16 You: It's, at least from today's, uh, technical discussion and demonstration, it's unclear to
4:23 You: unclear to me, how helpful it is on a day to day basis.
4:28 You: Now, to be fair, working on data at scale for me is more trivial than most others might find it.
4:29 Caller: Yeah.
4:37 You: It's unclear if that level of biological knowledge is also present in someone who has worked on data at that scale.
4:41 Caller: Yeah.
4:44 You: I assume finding biology experts is easier than finding data experts.
4:45 Caller: Yeah.
4:50 Caller: Yes, which they're very different positions, which is why, and people,
4:58 You: Yep.
4:59 Caller: more money as well. To be completely honest, people that are just more biological rather than the sort of large-scale data don't earn as much as individuals like you.
5:09 Caller: Obviously, I can't, from our previous conversations, when we just sort of talked about salary and everything like that, am I right in thinking that you're on around the 300 mark at the moment? Is that correct or have I got that wrong?
5:25 Caller: Just get up my nose. Just want to, look, I know it feels like,
5:28 You: Thank you.
5:29 Caller: I'm sort of repeating myself a little bit, but it's just to make sure that I always, I'd very rarely, if I actually ever, get an offer that gets to climb because I have these, we have these conversations throughout the process.
5:44 Caller: So when it does come to offer time and you get all your questions answered, which I will ask them and make sure that they discuss that with you on the final, then we're all on the same page always.
5:54 Caller: Yeah, so you're, the role was up to 300K.
5:58 You: Thank you.
5:59 Caller: So currently your total comps are 550K and you've got a 350K base.
5:59 You: Thank you.
6:01 You: Thank you.
6:03 Caller: Yeah.
6:04 Caller: So, look, when it comes to sort of the compensation side of things, Jed, well, now you've spoke to them a couple of times.
6:11 Caller: What sort of money do you think if they do tick that box for you?
6:15 Caller: I know this is all hindsight we're talking about, but if they were to tick the box with the biological experience,
6:21 Caller: what sort of money would it need to be for you to move on, do you think?
6:29 Caller: Yep.
6:31 You: I think the part that I'd want to understand is their cap table,
6:38 You: is their cap table, because I imagine, because I imagine,
6:43 Caller: Yep, 0.5% to 2% that they've advertised.
6:43 You: or options will be a meaningful portion of the total comp,
6:47 You: and any preference stack.
6:53 Caller: So you'll get equity of some description, which could be 2%, which obviously if any
6:57 Caller: if any of these pharma contracts get signed, which they've got five out at the moment
7:01 You: Well, that's why I asked about the preference
7:01 Caller: that they're in conversations with, obviously, that equity increases immediately, doesn't it?
7:07 Caller: And then they're also hiring a strategy individual, a founding strategy partner, which obviously
7:13 Caller: their sole purpose and job is to bring in more business, which obviously if they're employing
7:17 Caller: that person as well, then the likelihood of that being scaled is huge, isn't it?
7:24 Caller: So that 2% could be worth an awful lot of money.
7:27 Caller: Okay.
7:28 You: about the preference stack.
7:29 You: Are you familiar with all the preference stack?
7:30 You: Are you familiar with all
7:30 Caller: I haven't no preference that.
7:31 You: the aquahire news headlines, founders and their founding teams being hired away in exchange for buying out effectively their equity.
7:42 You: So the most famous one is probably a scale AI, Alexander Wang, who now heads up the superintelligence
7:49 You: lab at Meta. Zuck paid $14 billion, I think, for 49%.
7:55 You: So Wang and the investors, the early investors, made off with their
7:57 Caller: Right.
8:01 You: payday. Everyone else did not. They were effectively used as liquidity, and that's why,
8:04 Caller: Of course.
8:08 You: especially for these kinds of roles, I conduct diligence into their preference stack and cap table with the
8:15 You: same thoroughness that I do investing capital.
8:20 You: So that's the kind of diligence I would want to look into if we get to that stage.
8:26 You: And hopefully they're not as coy about it, if they are.
8:27 Caller: That all rates concern.
8:30 You: they are, then I'm going to be especially concerned because there's no way this is private enough to withhold it, in my opinion. But they're the ones who officially control that information.
8:34 Caller: Yeah.
8:35 Caller: Yeah.
8:36 Caller: Yeah.
8:39 Caller: Yeah.
8:42 Caller: Right.
8:43 Caller: Right. Yeah. I'm with you.
8:48 Caller: And then with the basic side of things, what, what sort of basic do you?
8:53 Caller: Would it need to be? Would it need to be an increase or could it be the same?
8:56 Caller: Because obviously their budget goes up to sort of 250 to 80 and I'm happy to push that.
9:00 You: So on the base, I recognize how few roles pay above it.
9:01 Caller: It just depends how much I need to.
9:08 You: So I'm not, I'm quite pragmatic where it comes to the base.
9:12 You: I'm trying to understand the, I guess the growth story is one way to describe it for any equity component.
9:21 You: So I left Ivan with, I left Ivan with, I left.
9:26 Caller: That could obviously be everything that you could discuss.
9:29 You: I left Ivan with some workers that are still working to finish building the prototype that he saw me architect in front of him.
9:38 You: So hopefully it works well enough that he's persuaded and well enough that David, who can actually use the prototype, is similarly persuaded.
9:42 Caller: Yeah.
9:47 You: But that's admittedly a gamble I took mainly because we ran out of time.
9:51 Caller: Right.
9:52 Caller: Okay.
9:53 Caller: Yeah.
9:54 Caller: Look.
9:55 Caller: When it comes to the base, I think.
9:56 Caller: Look, we might be able to, I certainly will be able to get the same base as what you're on at the moment and hopefully an increase.
9:59 You: Sounds good. Thank you, Owen.
10:02 Caller: But leave that side of things to me. I can have them conversations as and when I need to.
10:06 Caller: But yeah, look, Jed, great to catch up.
10:09 Caller: I will touch base with Ivan and I will speak to you soon.
10:14 Caller: Lovely. Thank you very much. Take care.
10:15 You: Thank you, Owen.
10:18 Caller: Bye.