Call —
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0:00 Caller: Hi, Jen, how are you?
0:00 You: This call will be recorded.
0:07 You: Hello, Graham.
0:10 You: I'm well and yourself.
0:11 Caller: I'm all right. Was it a good weekend?
0:16 You: The Nix one, so I'd say it was good enough.
0:20 Caller: You're an ex-fan, eh? That's good to hear.
0:20 You: No, it's just that the hooliganism was celebratory as opposed to rioting.
0:26 Caller: Oh.
0:29 Caller: Well, you have the French in New York in like two days, so let's see how that goes.
0:36 Caller: Yeah, he's got France versus Senegal for the world.
0:40 Caller: up in like online Wednesday. If the French lose, I suggest you board up and keep yourself
0:40 You: Thank you for.
0:47 Caller: indoors. If they win, go outside. But yeah, well, great, great, great to get you on the
0:55 Caller: phone. Good to see the process is going very well on your end.
1:00 Caller: Elliot, typically they're pretty straightforward,
1:00 You: Thank you.
1:03 Caller: but they're not that interested in a profile.
1:06 Caller: But with you, they're pretty much being very quiet about it.
1:10 Caller: The kind of feedback we're getting is pretty much just like,
1:13 Caller: yeah, we're keen to have him go into the next process.
1:18 Caller: So pretty much you're
1:20 Caller: in a good space. I guess this call for me is more so to get an understanding of what was discussed
1:20 You: It's a lot of it.
1:27 Caller: on the adapt side of things so we know how to position yourself and ourselves on this side of
1:32 Caller: things. And then on top of that just a couple of pretty much standard points on how the other
1:38 Caller: processes are going.
1:40 Caller: how could we position this role to be pretty much a top priority position for you and stuff like that.
1:40 You: Okay, where would you like to start?
1:47 You: So ADAPT is an internal platform that allows non-end or non-technical users
1:48 Caller: So I guess your thoughts on adapt. What's that about? And then we can go from back.
2:00 Caller: mm-hmm okay all right and all right and
2:00 You: to wield LLMs to build applets or mini apps or mini automations for themselves.
2:05 You: I assume it is a sandboxed environment so it can be done safely without affecting trading or order placement or order management.
2:12 You: I do not know its extent or its adoption.
2:16 You: But I assume both will expand.
2:20 Caller: yeah okay perfect um and you in terms of the thought more interesting than it was originally in terms of the scope of the role or does it just pretty much keep it at the same level
2:20 You: in spite of this role so whether or not this role gets filled it is it is elliott's intent to expand adapt as a platform
2:40 Caller: Yeah.
2:40 You: Interest is about the same level.
2:41 You: The biggest thing I don't know is what exactly is the present state of adapt
2:45 You: and what is the intended future state and what gaps am I meant to bridge.
2:49 You: So on paper I don't mind the change in scope,
2:55 Caller: Yeah, okay.
2:55 You: but I also need to know the consequences of filling that scope.
2:59 You: And if I have a reasonable...
3:00 Caller: perfect makes sense yeah makes sense so what i'll say is your next call obviously won't cover all of that
3:00 You: chance of success yes
3:10 Caller: from what we know is that i think you're with sam next right it's sad yeah um the conversation with sam
3:18 Caller: will be most
3:20 Caller: around DevOps. So to the actual systems, like, it will be less AI focused because Sam's probably not as savvy as potentially you or Brett regarding AI and AISDLC. But he is pretty much going to
3:20 You: We're going to be.
3:40 Caller: check how familiar you were with DevOps, how familiar you are with working with DevOps, and stuff like that.
3:40 You: Thank you.
3:46 Caller: So mostly just about your language credibility and stuff like that.
3:50 Caller: And then from that point, I think the feedback will be shared to the team and they'll
3:54 Caller: reverts on pretty much how they see you fitting further.
3:57 Caller: So should the conversation come in?
4:00 Caller: regarding ADAPT, what I'd say is it will likely come in in a natural sense, very much
4:00 You: You know,
4:08 Caller: conversationally like, so pretty much focus heavily around DevOps systems, deployment,
4:14 Caller: like reliability infrastructure, and how AI
4:20 Caller: enabled fdlc work would kind of sit alongside those teams and then should anything else come up i
4:20 You: Sounds good.
4:26 Caller: think you're pretty much naturally savvy for that so you probably got that down okay um and now
4:36 Caller: in terms of we're getting to the point whereby in the
4:40 Caller: next round chances are you'll need to have thoughts on numbers around your head and stuff like that so
4:40 You: I'm
4:47 Caller: just so we're aware you can be completely honest with this obviously we're not going to pass it on to
4:53 Caller: eliot but just for our standpoint just so we know where you see this position how does it compare
4:58 Caller: to any of your other opportunity
5:00 Caller: right now.
5:00 You: I think they're peers.
5:01 Caller: Mm-hmm.
5:02 Caller: Mm-hmm.
5:03 Caller: Mm-hmm.
5:03 You: So the framework that I've given every recruiter is 300,000 base.
5:08 You: If the comp is all cash, or liquid, $450,000 total comp.
5:12 You: If the comp is illiquid, the different startups that have ISOs or NSOs options, basically,
5:20 Caller: Mm-hmm.
5:20 You: 600,000 total comp with diligence into their cap table, the preference stack, and the employee
5:23 Caller: Mm-hmm.
5:26 You: incentive plan. Basically, so I can measure the risk premium that I would want to charge to take
5:31 You: on that risk of illiquidity. So to my knowledge, Elliot can meet the liquid part of that criteria,
5:40 Caller: Mm-hmm.
5:40 You: The other companies I'm speaking with can also, where it's liquid can meet the liquid criteria, where it's not liquid can meet the illiquid criteria.
5:51 You: I haven't yet seen specifics about the cap table or the EIP or the preference stack, but the assumption is that
6:00 Caller: Mm-hmm.
6:00 You: If the preferences are more onerous or more investor-friendly, the risk premium increases, otherwise I'd be willing to accept a decrease.
6:03 Caller: Mm-hmm.
6:10 You: So that's, when I get pushed back from the founders or the hiring managers, I point to what happened to scale AI or windsurf or any of the other aquire.
6:20 Caller: Yeah.
6:20 You: news headlines. And I explain I don't wish to hold the bag. And they begrudgingly understand.
6:26 You: So hopefully it didn't cost me too many processes. They're still interviewing. But
6:27 Caller: Mm-hmm.
6:28 Caller: Mm-hmm.
6:29 You: that's the frame of mind that I'm in when I now evaluate these illiquid offers.
6:30 Caller: Mm-hmm.
6:35 Caller: Yeah.
6:40 Caller: Okay. And less on the offer is more on the job itself in comparison to the other roles that you're interviewing for, what would you say the role itself ranks as?
6:40 You: I'd say it's a four or five-way tie for first.
6:55 You: They're all AI-centric.
6:57 You: They're all...
7:00 Caller: Uh-huh.
7:00 You: geared toward extending the use of AI, the distinction is the use case.
7:04 Caller: Uh-huh.
7:05 You: So one is investment, another is the central function of a roll-up, a third is a different
7:10 You: class of companies, a roll-up, a fourth is the center of excellence for multiple agencies.
7:16 You: So it's all, it's all
7:20 Caller: You're very good at that.
7:20 You: a similar problem space, at least they overlap in that way.
7:29 Caller: You're very good at chatting the line.
7:30 Caller: You know that, Jed.
7:32 You: Genuinely, they're, what's it called?
7:35 You: Maybe this is coincidental, but genuinely, they are very similar problems.
7:40 Caller: Yeah, makes sense. I think what I'm trying to kind of dig out here is pretty much if I was to have a
7:40 You: across different industries. So part of it is certainly luck, but I think the other part is just the sheer number of processes I've turned through.
8:00 Caller: conversation with Jim or their team posts your call tomorrow because what we anticipate
8:00 You: Thank you.
8:06 Caller: is what they'll revert with is pretty much okay we're likely going to be very
8:10 Caller: keen on moving forward with Jed what are certain things that you can give us
8:15 Caller: that we can pretty much say to him that will guarantee us getting a yes show
8:20 Caller: we put an offer in front of them.
8:20 You: Understood. Okay. Allow me to be more specific. You have the comp framework. That's, for me, table stakes across all five processes. Beyond that, I would want to understand the IP carve-outs, because a lot of, in my opinion, what surfaced my profile for any of these roles is the fact that I have a relatively public...
8:21 Caller: That's pretty much what I'm trying to gauge at.
8:24 Caller: Yeah. Yeah.
8:27 Caller: Yeah.
8:30 Caller: Mm-hmm.
8:35 Caller: Mm-hmm.
8:39 Caller: Mm-hmm.
8:40 Caller: Yeah.
8:40 You: surface area for Google perplexity and other LLMs to find. So I have a number of open source
8:47 Caller: Yeah.
8:47 You: projects. I want to ensure that I'm happy to grant an irrevocable license to use it. That's
8:48 Caller: Thank you.
8:53 You: the nature of the open source license. But what I don't want is the employer, whichever
8:57 You: one I end up with, to force me to...
9:00 Caller: mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm
9:00 You: sign over ownership. So as long as that separate ownership is permitted and I'm allowed to
9:05 You: continue developing it on my own time and resources, I'm not really concerned there. One of the,
9:11 You: what's the term? One of the processes is with the consultancy. I anticipate that it'll be a point
9:17 You: of friction with them, but they haven't.
9:20 Caller: Yeah.
9:20 You: yet indicated. So that's something where I need to legitimately check the offer and employment
9:24 You: agreement before I start raising those concerns. If Elliott can get ahead of that and ensure those,
9:29 You: what's the term, ensure those carve-outs are in place in ahead of time. That would be a lot less
9:30 Caller: Yeah.
9:35 You: friction for both of us. The second is transition out of row.
9:40 Caller: Yeah.
9:40 You: I know most places in America expect two weeks, and I will try, but I genuinely cannot guarantee it.
9:47 You: My surface area within Roe is tremendous.
9:49 You: I support genuinely every leader, so that represents 200, 300 services that need to be migrated off.
9:53 Caller: Yeah.
9:54 Caller: Yep.
9:57 Caller: Yep.
9:57 You: And I anticipate a four to six weeks.
10:00 Caller: I don't think...
10:00 You: process to perform that migration so i recognize some some firms need to move faster and i i have i went
10:10 Caller: I don't think...
10:10 You: through most of their process and then once they stated their deadline i had to politely back out
10:12 Caller: Yeah.
10:14 You: but i'm still if they couldn't fill the seat there they would at least welcome me to complete the process
10:20 Caller: Yeah.
10:20 You: And then the other part is trying to make sure that all my current five leaders align within the two-week window, end of June, first week of July.
10:30 Caller: Yeah.
10:30 You: I know there's a holiday in the middle of that, so a little complicated, but those are the parameters beyond simple compensation.
10:32 Caller: Yeah.
10:35 Caller: Okay.
10:36 Caller: Okay.
10:40 Caller: So we're speaking at a hedge fund level, right?
10:40 You: other levers that Elliott can pull.
10:50 Caller: So when it comes to hedge funds, like you've noticed, you could have an interview and they can look at your profile, and then the role and the capacity changes.
10:59 Caller: What typically?
11:00 Caller: you find with hedge funds is if they can see an opportunity to make the right seat for the
11:00 You: Thank you.
11:05 Caller: person then they will obviously go for it as well as if it fills the specific needs that they
11:09 Caller: have so some of the things that you mentioned like in terms of comp whether it be um everything to do
11:17 Caller: with comp they can pretty much cover in terms of
11:20 Caller: So the notice and time that it would take for you to pretty much do a handover,
11:20 You: Thank you.
11:25 Caller: that's not going to be an issue because typically Elliot would have to wait maybe three months
11:29 Caller: at market rate for a person to join regular.
11:33 Caller: So that's not going to be something that is an issue for them.
11:36 Caller: Six weeks is probably fine for them.
11:40 Caller: If not, they could probably hand you more should you need it.
11:40 You: We're going to be.
11:42 Caller: So June-July timeline, that's not going to be an issue.
11:48 Caller: I think pretty much, the way I'll phrase it is,
11:51 Caller: you got a lot of leverage.
11:54 Caller: Should they pretty much be in a position
11:56 Caller: to say we want to hand you an offer?
11:58 Caller: Because what you're asking for is
12:00 Caller: is essentially not as in this world.
12:00 You: Thank you.
12:04 Caller: It's literally within the ballpark or slightly,
12:07 Caller: yeah, it's within the ballpark of what they can offer.
12:11 Caller: So it's pretty much us needing,
12:14 Caller: this is pretty much us for tomorrow
12:16 Caller: having to put that information down once they come back.
12:20 Caller: with their feedback and once it's positive and we know it's positive is pretty much just us layering
12:20 You: I'm
12:25 Caller: that out for you so that by the time it's time to have an offer in front of you maybe instead of
12:31 Caller: you having a lot to push back on it's pretty much just a couple of bits of wording and we can
12:35 Caller: get that out for you as quickly as possible so yeah i think
12:40 Caller: Yeah, I think that's the best way I can kind of phrase it.
12:40 You: Thank you.
12:45 Caller: You're in a process with a hedge fund whereby they pretty much have adapted themselves to your profile,
12:53 Caller: and that's pretty much how work would go about there.
12:59 Caller: So...
13:00 Caller: Yeah, I think for tomorrow, I'd say you're pretty much all set up,
13:00 You: The end.
13:02 You: I'm sorry.
13:03 You: Thank you.
13:04 Caller: but I would maybe have a question on Adapt, ready to pose to the team,
13:11 Caller: just to kind of make sure that you have that covered,
13:14 Caller: so that after the call, after the meeting with them,
13:19 Caller: should we have a...
13:20 Caller: core, the only point of friction that we might have would be the aspect of figuring out how
13:20 You: I am I.
13:26 Caller: that role, how adapt pretty much fits into your remit, and whether it would be something
13:31 Caller: that you might be very keen on. I know Sam might not be able to answer all your questions,
13:36 Caller: but chances are, if he's very much close to the team, he would have an increase.
13:40 Caller: even though it might not be as technical he would have an inkling on how that would pretty much be set up for you so i think for now we only have to focus on that and then you can leave the the numbers and the conversations of pretty much how to get your setup ready for you once you have that offer to me and bad yeah
13:40 You: Understood, I hesitate to bring up a
14:00 Caller: Um, yeah.
14:00 You: to Sam only because it might appear as I'm too keen on adapt versus the original mandate.
14:06 You: So I agree with your assessment, but I would probably let Sam bring it up and then respond then.
14:12 Caller: Yeah.
14:12 You: Otherwise, focus on, I assume, the JD that Sam is working off of.
14:14 Caller: Yeah.
14:18 You: If you have any, if you catch...
14:20 Caller: yeah yeah all right yeah that makes sense um and just from krague and i had a conversation about you
14:20 You: or any inkling otherwise, please let me know as soon as you can, only because that helps me pivot my original strategy.
14:35 Caller: this morning it really was that you're doing well keep it commercial which
14:40 Caller: This is good. Everybody knows, like, like, everybody knows your, so this is from the feedback from Jim, obviously, from the first call where it was like, we're sure he's technically savvy. We just want to know whether he's as commercial as he pretty much can be, which is the aspect of you can be.
14:40 You: What do you mean keep it commercial?
15:00 Caller: be a really good tech person, but also needs to be able to complete the goal of the actual
15:00 You: We're going to be.
15:05 Caller: task at hand, which you're already pretty much set up on you've been, like the strategy you
15:12 Caller: probably have already is well down with that. And we did that previously for the, when we mentioned
15:19 Caller: your...
15:20 Caller: or, what was it, the cost you were cutting with pretty much what you were doing at Roe.
15:20 You: Understood.
15:28 Caller: So you're pretty much all set up for that.
15:30 Caller: It was just kind of like a casual reminder, like in a jokey way.
15:33 You: So I shouldn't emphasize those to Sam.
15:34 Caller: Yeah, it was not too serious.
15:37 You: Let him focus on the technology.
15:40 Caller: I'd say there's a middle ground to it.
15:40 You: Thank you.
15:45 Caller: I'd say you obviously want Sam to think that you're commercially aware.
15:50 Caller: I think with hedge funds one of the things that you need them to understand is that you're
15:54 Caller: technically ahead of your pack which you can show pretty much statistically.
16:00 Caller: you have the evidence for it but on top of that you need to show them that although you're
16:00 You: I'm
16:04 Caller: ahead of the path you understand what the goals are for the fund and the fund and for the job
16:08 Caller: itself in that you're able to complete that over to me essential technical savvy that you do
16:15 Caller: have almost being able to put the goal of the firm ahead of your own
16:20 Caller: technical skill sets and needs.
16:20 You: Understood. Okay.
16:25 Caller: But otherwise, all good, you're fine, all right.
16:27 You: Sounds good.
16:30 Caller: I'll leave you to it.
16:32 Caller: Let me know if you have any other questions.
16:34 Caller: I'll send a small pack, should I get one from Ben,
16:38 Caller: but I think you pretty much have everything from me.
16:40 Caller: on that side of things okay yeah yeah
16:40 You: The only feedback for Ben on that pack in case he writes another one, are there other candidates in sequence for this role?
16:48 You: About a third of it, Brett didn't go over at all.
16:53 You: Brett's focus was almost exclusively the technology, not the business.
16:57 You: So I don't know if it was because of the other conversations.
17:00 Caller: So the pack, obviously it varies.
17:00 You: you had or something else, but that's just feedback I have for Ben at his packet.
17:09 Caller: What we'll say is pretty much the pack is not going to have everything that the firm is
17:16 Caller: going to ask.
17:17 Caller: It pretty much covers everything you would expect.
17:20 Caller: because they have the time to go or everything but at the same time you're only having a 45 minute call
17:20 You: Okay.
17:24 Caller: so all it tries to do is prepare you for each and every angle that we've already seen
17:30 Caller: so yeah you might get obviously for you you might get questions that essentially a third of it won't
17:37 Caller: well two thirds of it won't show up but that's specific
17:40 Caller: one third that does show up is pretty much very important for us for you to essentially have seen or even have taken a look at before so it's not like something shocking and the two-thirds of the questions that don't show out for you chances are they've already shown up for somebody else and they just weren't relevant to your profile at that point in time so yeah like we
17:40 You: Understood. So it's a super set.
18:00 Caller: Yeah, we don't see it as like the Bible for how to do your interviews.
18:00 You: We're going to be.
18:07 Caller: It's almost like a small cheat sheet that we have that pretty much gives people the kind of added preparation that they might need.
18:16 Caller: It's not always going to be like the interviewer is going to fall.
18:20 Caller: follow that tightrope um but yeah um um um um um um
18:20 You: Understood. Okay. Then thank you very much for the brief gram. If I don't see the invitation for tomorrow's call by later today, do I message you or reach out to someone else? Because I know it's, it'll be late there in the UK.
18:40 Caller: reach out to me if I don't get back to you just I think Jim would have popped you an email
18:40 You: All right, I'll look out for that note from Jim.
18:49 Caller: yeah if Jim hasn't popped you an email or an invite feel free basically by the time
18:57 Caller: it's 4 p.m. EC tomorrow so we'll probably
19:00 Caller: be awake early enough to get that inviative sense over. Should anything be wrong? We'll let you know,
19:00 You: Sounds good.
19:04 Caller: okay. Perfect. Good. Bye, said.
19:05 You: All right.
19:06 You: Thank you, Graham.
19:08 You: Take care.