Call —
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0:00 Caller: Jed, hi, it's Ben here from RLS search. I work with Graham.
0:00 You: This call will be recorded.
0:04 You: Hello.
0:09 You: Hello, Ben.
0:11 Caller: Hi. Yes, how are you? Good.
0:12 You: I'm glad we could finally talk.
0:16 You: I'm well.
0:17 You: Perhaps you can help me feel like I've been trying to feel.
0:20 Caller: Yeah, of course. Look, I can do my best. But yeah, just, okay, yeah, go ahead.
0:20 You: Bill with Graham. Would you happen to have? I'm trying to understand what Elliot's personal investing policy is. I'm sure they have one. I don't understand why it's just two weeks to get it.
0:40 Caller: Okay, I will, is this basically, just so I understand, is this what you want before we move forward with any next stage, if there is a next stage, which they haven't confirmed, but if there is.
0:40 You: We're going to be.
0:43 You: Thank you.
0:45 You: Thank you.
1:00 Caller: Would you prefer to have that and then move forward after because you may have questions or obviously you may come to a conclusion that all is fine anyway and you don't have any further questions?
1:00 You: My preference is to run that in parallel, because I know the super days take time to book,
1:17 You: and I'm trying to also conclude the remaining process.
1:20 Caller: Mm-hmm.
1:20 You: processes. My expectation or my assumption is that the trading policy is like most other trading
1:26 You: policies at buy-side firms, and there's nothing material that I need to worry about. But I can't
1:31 You: know without seeing what ultimately is the published policy. I could, of course, take a call
1:36 You: with whoever is in compliance that would be enforcing the policy. But without
1:40 Caller: Okay, and then also IP.
1:40 You: the policy in hand it would be a very unproductive call because i'd spend a good chunk of the time
1:44 You: reading it so the IP problem less of a concern at the moment only because the mad date is
1:52 Caller: Okay.
1:54 Caller: Okay.
1:56 You: SDLC if they intend if Elliott intends
2:00 Caller: Thank you.
2:00 You: extend the mandate to anything AI-related, that becomes problematic because AI is becoming
2:06 You: very quickly my craft, no different from any of the portfolio managers or traders that
2:13 You: Graham is placed who practiced their craft in other markets.
2:20 Caller: Understood.
2:20 You: aside from the ones of their employer so being able to practice my craft and to refine it further on my own time and resources and therefore to my own ownership is something i would like to protect
2:22 Caller: Yeah.
2:24 Caller: Okay.
2:40 Caller: Okay, fine. I will escalate those two things to try and get that in front of you.
2:40 You: Thank you, Ben.
2:47 Caller: Okay? Not a problem. And then if you have further questions, that's when we can come back to it.
2:54 Caller: I don't want to assume you will. You might not. You might just be happy with what you see.
3:00 Caller: an issue on their side or for whatever reason they can't and they would prefer a call, I will let you know. Would you still be open to that if they would want to speak to you before sharing anything?
3:00 You: I can, I can take the call, I can answer those questions.
3:13 You: I assume also they can be done over an email if it's faster.
3:16 Caller: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
3:20 Caller: Fine. What is your like that, all of that aside, how old do you feel about things right now?
3:20 You: I can't tell if this friction is coming from Elliott or from RLS.
3:33 You: Part of my concern with Elliot, part of my, well, Graham probably shared with you the advantage that Elliot has is.
3:40 Caller: Yeah, yeah.
3:40 You: the disadvantages. The first one is this mandate is exclusively the AISDLC. All three
3:46 Caller: Yep.
3:48 You: interviewers I've spoken with suggest that that becomes the exclusive mandate of this
3:54 You: role. When I asked about AI usage elsewhere in the firm, someone else has handled it.
4:00 Caller: Yeah.
4:00 You: all well and good the concern comes from the a i sdlc that i built at row took me about six months this roll or this seat is meant to be sat for five to ten years so what would i do the remaining four and a half or is there a possibility that after the s dLC achievements are hit or the targets are hit
4:20 Caller: Um, okay. Um, no, I understand. Yeah, but you don't like it's not, I get what you're saying. Um, it's not, it's a fair enough question.
4:20 You: thank you for your service it's a difficult question to ask because then i look like i'm not
4:29 You: interested in their mandate you know what i mean
4:40 Caller: but worded in a certain way, right?
4:40 You: So I asked David this, and the reason this role exists is
4:42 Caller: Of like, what's the long-term vision here?
4:44 Caller: Like, that can, it's,
4:48 Caller: so do you feel you know what their long-term
4:51 Caller: five-year plan is in this role?
4:53 Caller: Because if you don't, that's fine.
4:54 Caller: That's a gap that we need to fill in.
4:58 Caller: Yeah?
5:00 Caller: Is that was that his answer?
5:00 You: because of overwhelming FOMO from the COO.
5:08 You: Verbatim.
5:11 Caller: Okay.
5:12 Caller: Did you ask him anything off the back of that or expand on that?
5:16 Caller: Thank you.
5:16 You: I didn't want to dig too deep in case I looked too keen on that particular response.
5:20 Caller: Yeah, no, fine. Was it said ingest, do you feel? Or was he quite serious?
5:20 You: I will assume it's an off-the-cuff remark, but it stuck with me.
5:31 You: He is very British and very stoic in that way, so I couldn't really read him.
5:38 You: I couldn't tell if it was dry...
5:40 Caller: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we do have a bit of a dry sense of humor generally over here.
5:40 You: it the way you might get from Churchill or just how things work in England.
5:51 Caller: But, okay, so I understand that. So you feel you can deliver it what they're asking currently fairly quick.
6:00 Caller: and the five to ten year plans not clear to you to play devil's advocate just slightly
6:00 You: We're going to be.
6:02 You: I'm
6:07 Caller: I've been speaking to a lot of people in AI in AI development or AI sort of like
6:14 Caller: whatever whatever you want to sort of call it the the
6:20 Caller: The five-year plan with AI, with technology that is rapidly changing, I mean, even a year ago, I was not having conversations with developers about whether they use Claude or not.
6:20 You: We're going to be.
6:22 You: We're going to be.
6:35 Caller: Even six months ago, I wasn't having anywhere near as many.
6:40 Caller: conversations about what AI tooling your, like an engineer is using in their role.
6:40 You: Oh, it is absolutely difficult
6:46 Caller: Given that and that speed of change, do you see that maybe it can be quite difficult to pin down
6:55 Caller: what's going to be going on in three to five years?
7:00 Caller: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
7:00 You: to pin down three to five years. Five years ago, AI wasn't a conversation at all, only in academia.
7:06 You: My concern with Elliot specifically is, would I be forced to keep that swim lane within
7:12 You: SDLC? Because if I'm able to improve the productivity of SDLC, however many hundreds,
7:20 Caller: Mm-hmm.
7:20 You: of percent, or I catch enough of the low-hanging fruit to make those improvements,
7:24 You: any subsequent improvement, and therefore my performance would be measured in single digits
7:29 You: or marginally smaller increases, unless there's another major technological shift.
7:35 Caller: Mm-hmm.
7:36 You: So I acknowledge this is me looking.
7:37 Caller: Mm-hmm.
7:39 Caller: So for you...
7:40 Caller: You just want, you may, yeah, no, absolutely, look, so do you, do you want to know, would you find it valuable then to get those gaps filled in, either, obviously either on and on-site, or maybe if, you know, maybe before on a core of video?
7:40 You: more from my rice bowl.
7:59 Caller: If you've got out...
7:59 You: I don't know.
8:00 Caller: understanding questions sorry okay so who who yeah and what do you want from your next role
8:00 You: I don't expect Elliot to have the answers, but the unspoken answers that I've gotten so far is that this is the scope of the role. This is the lane you sit in. And that where you're expected to sit for five to ten years, my, it's not what I
8:20 Caller: yeah of course but like you yeah and why do you feel that isn't something
8:20 You: want from the role. It's the reality of the AI. The AI and his capabilities will shift. Does that then
8:26 You: mean the scope stay the same or does the scope extend to the rest of the firm at some point after
8:31 You: this original mandate is satisfied or there are higher ROI activities that can be reached?
8:40 Caller: Why do you currently feel that's not something you can bring up and ask?
8:40 You: because any interest away from the a i s dLC the problem for which elliot or any hedge fund would throw money at is disinterest in the problem or at least maybe that's an irrational conclusion but all of the conversations have been very heavily
9:00 Caller: Okay. And what about the other opportunities? Are you feeling the same or are they giving more of a picture of like where you can be impactful beyond that?
9:00 You: into CICD and change management of in this case software engineering or code development.
9:20 Caller: that that more narrow scope
9:20 You: So the startup is the widest scope, but that's also because they're a startup.
9:22 Caller: yep
9:24 Caller: yep
9:27 You: The health tech PE fund, it's the same problem repeated across the report code, however big it ends up being.
9:34 You: And then for the other PE fund, it's presumed to be the same problem
9:40 Caller: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
9:40 You: repeated across different companies and different industries that all have some special ratio of
9:45 You: cash flow that makes them desirable in the first place. And then for the last quantitative fund,
9:52 You: it's smaller, and they already said this is the first goal that they're trying to accomplish.
9:57 You: They don't know the future goals. They don't know the next ones.
10:00 Caller: Elliot, I'd be absolutely shocked if Elliot plans to go through all of this, all of these pro interviews with you, lay down...
10:00 You: That's fair. I didn't know either. But at least there is a willingness to keep the person employed at the firm versus solving their mandate.
10:20 Caller: the money that we're talking about to remove you from the business in six months.
10:20 You: it precludes paying a it precludes paying a bonus so if i'm acted it six months
10:26 Caller: They have really good tenure in the firm. They're investing.
10:40 Caller: level of, yeah, if you have that level of skepticism towards them, then, you know, I would
10:40 You: I hate the bonus.
10:47 Caller: respectfully say maybe you're not to continue. Like, I really like there's going to be a level
10:55 Caller: of trust, right, when you enter that partnership with them.
11:00 Caller: Like, they, just to kind of let you know, like, Elliot find it really difficult to find the right people because they're an elite by side firm.
11:00 You: We're going to be.
11:02 You: We're going to be.
11:04 You: We're going to be.
11:06 You: Thank you.
11:08 You: Thank you.
11:09 Caller: So they all find it difficult, but they find it really difficult because they're quite small, right?
11:10 You: Thank you.
11:15 Caller: So you've got your like Citadel Millennium.
11:17 Caller: They really find it hard as well, but they're a lot bigger.
11:20 Caller: so there's a bit more give probably um the reason i'm telling you that is the context of them then
11:20 You: Thank you.
11:25 Caller: planning to bring someone in for a few months to then not pay them their bonus so they can
11:31 Caller: quickly get rid of them that will not be going through their minds like but if you feel it is um
11:40 Caller: you know that there's not like much that graham or i can can do if you do feel that way but um
11:40 You: The part that shipped me over this was the call with David when he made that comment about the COO's FOMO.
11:47 Caller: i i yeah yeah
11:53 You: So I acknowledge that there is a little bit of FOMO in the AI space.
12:00 Caller: yeah um yeah um yeah in my opinion jed um
12:00 You: clear is if that FOMO disappears, what happens next? Conviction in the role or simply they
12:08 You: close the function? Or in the discipline, I guess, is a better way to put it.
12:20 Caller: I like I'm not going to look obviously I'm going to be steered by yourself I would not mention to them what you've said around David's comments specifically we don't we don't need to get into the weeds of who said what that's made you feel slightly uneasy
12:20 You: Thank you.
12:40 Caller: But I am open to saying, look, this is the good bits about what Jed thinks of the role.
12:40 You: We're going to go.
12:42 You: I'm
12:47 Caller: These are the gaps in his knowledge where he's unsure.
12:50 Caller: Like, he is open to continuing, but I'll leave it with, like, we can leave it.
13:00 Caller: with them and be like do you think that getting like maybe a quick call with brett for for example i know
13:00 You: We're going to be.
13:03 You: I don't know.
13:09 Caller: you've met him um might be a good idea you know putting that to them um so just to see right it's not
13:18 Caller: no you know
13:20 Caller: know this is not about only them this is about you you have things you're not
13:20 You: Thank you.
13:25 Caller: sure on that isn't an issue we all we all we all we all interview for jobs I've
13:31 Caller: done it and I've come away thinking I didn't like what that person said or
13:35 Caller: that makes me have quest further questions normal completely normal
13:40 Caller: but obviously um you want to get to a position with all of your opportunities where you don't
13:40 You: We're going to be.
13:47 Caller: have to receive any offers not a hundred percent knowing what you what you would be
13:53 Caller: accepting um and and right now it sounds like you know
14:00 Caller: a bit about what you would be taking on for six months,
14:00 You: Thank you.
14:04 Caller: but you're unsure beyond that.
14:06 Caller: So this is nothing even to do with the trading and the IP thing.
14:09 Caller: That's a separate conversation,
14:11 Caller: which we can go to them about.
14:14 Caller: But I think, yeah, I mean, just to flip it round, Jed, what...
14:20 Caller: What do you like about it at the moment then?
14:20 You: the enthusiasm over being able to AI their SCLC assuming I can land that win I'm hoping and admittedly this is a bit
14:23 Caller: Because you've obviously said where maybe your concerns lie.
14:27 Caller: What's keeping you in and talking to them?
14:40 Caller: So you're looking for that supportive structure, but when you come in and prove yourself,
14:40 You: optimistic thinking on my part, the attitude from leadership or my direct leadership becomes
14:46 You: what else can you do as opposed to here's what we want you to do next. Because I'm hoping
14:53 You: by demonstrating that commercial, I don't know if I'd call it.
15:00 Caller: uh yeah mm-hmm
15:00 You: i don't know if i'd call it supportive it's more i see a problem that can benefit from
15:09 You: a i this is the anticipated return these are the risks beneath it how hard do i need to
15:14 You: justify versus go and try it out
15:20 Caller: if you if you if we continue this we we've got to sit down whether it's with
15:20 You: Thank you.
15:25 Caller: myself Graham even Craig and really plan what you can ask them because like in
15:32 Caller: in my opinion you need to yeah you definitely need
15:40 Caller: to know more before I mean you tell me if I'm wrong but before like knowing if this is actually
15:40 You: I'm
15:45 Caller: going to be the right move for you there's some things you you want to need to know and that's
15:50 Caller: normal because you're only a few stages it but like um yeah I look we we haven't got the feedback
15:59 Caller: yet it's a little
16:00 Caller: little we're obviously getting ahead of ourselves slightly but from what from what
16:00 You: as grand my forwarding my deans to you
16:05 Caller: Graham told me um it sounds like David mentioned to you you know that you can
16:13 Caller: contact him directly um and so you what
16:20 Caller: No, no, yeah, yeah, no, and I really appreciate that.
16:20 You: I give them fairly detailed emails after those calls, so you're welcome to go through them as well.
16:28 Caller: With the David thing, yeah, I mean, one has to think that why would David go through that trouble with yourself if he didn't come off?
16:40 Caller: feeling positive about your your candidacy um what is that is that a joke or do you do
16:40 You: because brett told him to it is possible for my sense maybe 30% plausible outcome now i happen
16:51 Caller: actually think that what the brett would have said
17:00 Caller: yeah
17:00 You: that breakfast to david to assess my candidacy it's not david volunteered yet let me go check out this candidate
17:01 Caller: oh well obviously like
17:09 Caller: David's part of the interviewing panel right
17:11 Caller: and he's obviously been like
17:13 Caller: put on that for a reason
17:15 Caller: because of his role in the business
17:17 Caller: but you know he he may well
17:19 Caller: no.
17:20 Caller: want to, given his role, he may well want to meet the person that ends up in this seat
17:20 You: Thank you.
17:25 Caller: because it affects him. But like, um, with regards to, I'm not talking about the fact that
17:31 Caller: he interviewed you. I'm more talking about what he said at the end around like reach out
17:36 Caller: basically directly. Obviously.
17:40 Caller: you do get the sense that if it was someone he didn't see as a promising candidate and didn't like,
17:40 You: understood so i have one shot and i take your graham and whoever else is counsel to not waste it
17:47 Caller: it's unlikely that he would say that.
18:00 Caller: Yeah. It's not the one-shot thing. It's about you fundamentally getting to a position where you feel as much as you can, you know what this role is and whether it aligns to your career goals. That's what I'm saying. At the moment...
18:00 You: well
18:20 Caller: moment and I'm gone sorry.
18:20 You: much the same way what may very well have been an offhand comment left a slightly sour taste i do not want an off email to leave the same outcome your prep document at the very beginning of this process was especially helpful so hopefully that same insight
18:40 Caller: Yeah, look, I'm here to help, right, and so is Graham.
18:40 You: creativity can present itself here and I don't mean to be
18:47 Caller: And that's fundamentally it.
18:49 Caller: We're here to help you, we're here to help them to see if there's a mutual ground.
18:53 You: I'm sorry I don't mean to be abrupt I can I do need to take my kid to day
18:55 Caller: Yeah.
18:57 You: care but I'm happy to continue this call once I get
19:00 Caller: Oh, okay. Yeah, but...
19:00 You: back. But I appreciate that you're trying to assuage these concerns. I hopefully you
19:08 You: can persuade Elliot to do the same, and then we can sign this and look back on it fondly.
19:20 Caller: know like that you fundamentally you know you you're still interested but yeah there's still
19:20 You: Thank you.
19:30 Caller: some holes in your knowledge on the role that you would need filling in if you for you to make
19:36 Caller: you know decide okay this is this is the role
19:40 Caller: for me and that's fine because they will be probably thinking the same on their side
19:40 You: Excellent.
19:45 Caller: you know but and then and then the specifics around the other things that we've
19:51 Caller: been talking about which I don't you know we don't need to keep bringing up
19:56 Caller: but okay all right
20:00 Caller: Yeah, I appreciate your time, Jed.
20:00 You: Hopefully, this represented what Graham represented to you from me.
20:08 Caller: All right, bye.
20:08 You: All right.
20:08 You: Thank you, Ben.
20:09 You: Take care.