Call —
Transcript batch
0:00 Caller: Hi, Jed, it's Ben.
0:00 You: This call will be recorded.
0:04 You: Hello.
0:08 Caller: Hi, Jed, it's Ben.
0:09 You: Good evening, Ben.
0:12 Caller: Hi, how are you?
0:14 You: So what did you ask from Graham?
0:15 Caller: Yeah, so obviously there's a couple of things.
0:16 You: Because I think something is getting lost in translation.
0:30 Caller: I'm happy, obviously, look, we want to, we want to, I'm going to tell Elliot that you've
0:30 You: Thank you.
0:37 Caller: got offers in hand in the timeline, because that's important that they're aware of that.
0:41 Caller: So you're going in tomorrow and obviously meeting Brett in person and there's some things
0:47 Caller: you need to iron out that you and I discussed on the last call to understand if this is
0:53 Caller: the role that you want over the other roles.
0:57 Caller: So, but at some point, I, unless we are going in after tomorrow with the exact same
1:00 You: Thank you.
1:02 You: Thank you.
1:03 You: Thank you.
1:04 You: Thank you.
1:05 You: Thank you.
1:06 You: Thank you.
1:07 You: Thank you.
1:07 Caller: ask that you've been talking to Graham about throughout on comp, if you decide tomorrow
1:08 You: Thank you.
1:10 You: Thank you.
1:12 You: Thank you.
1:13 You: Thank you.
1:14 Caller: you do want, you know, Elliot's top of your list and it's the one you would want, you know,
1:15 You: Thank you.
1:16 You: Thank you.
1:17 You: Thank you.
1:19 You: Thank you.
1:19 Caller: outside of money, and we go back and say that, the offer would, any offer that we sort of
1:20 You: Thank you.
1:21 You: Thank you.
1:23 You: Thank you.
1:24 You: Thank you.
1:25 You: Thank you.
1:27 You: Thank you.
1:27 Caller: ask for. If it's at the same level it's been the whole time, fine. But if there's any change
1:29 You: Thank you.
1:31 You: Thank you.
1:33 You: And what
1:33 Caller: in it, what I've said to Graham is the current information we have wouldn't be enough to go back
1:40 You: Thank you.
1:40 Caller: to Elliot and justify any change in the offer. It's not because we care about what that offer
1:41 You: And what's
1:46 Caller: looks like or being nosy. It's the justification piece going back to them. It's the leverage
1:48 You: I'm going
1:49 You: up
1:50 You: I'm giving up
1:52 Caller: to use. So the detail needs to be, basically, like, what is...
1:53 You: what's to stop Elliot from going
1:55 You: from going
1:57 Caller: what are the numbers you're offered so we can provide that to Elliot.
2:03 Caller: Otherwise, we've got no leverage. We've got, sorry, sorry?
2:09 You: from going just over?
2:10 You: over just over whatever the highest offer ends up being on the detailed basis versus coming up with what they genuinely think is their best final.
2:21 You: They have the shape of the different.
2:24 You: So
2:26 You: I understand.
2:27 Caller: and I discuss a view throughout, which was the 400 mark. If we come back at the end and say, by the way, sorry?
2:28 You: And if you're uncomfortable presenting me
2:34 You: I understand.
2:37 You: If you're uncomfortable presenting me above that number, I understand, if you're uncomfortable presenting
2:39 You: above that number, that's fine.
2:41 You: Present as is.
2:42 You: And if Elliot comes in there, you understand where the headline is.
2:46 You: So I'm trying to understand how knowing the cut between base and bonus
2:52 You: would swivel Elliott one way or the other versus the total first year.
2:57 Caller: No, no, what I'm, that's not, I'm not talking about the cut at the moment. I'm talking,
3:04 Caller: the cut's a different thing, and we'll come on, we can come on to that. I'm more talking about,
3:08 You: Thank you.
3:10 You: And
3:10 Caller: unless I'm incorrect here, Graham's communicated to me that throughout,
3:11 You: I'm
3:12 You: I'm
3:13 You: I'm
3:15 You: and
3:16 Caller: whenever you've spoken about comp that you're looking for and would be happy with, all things
3:17 You: I'm
3:18 You: I'm
3:20 You: and
3:22 You: I'm
3:23 You: I
3:23 Caller: considered, would be a 400,000 total. Now,
3:25 You: and
3:26 You: and
3:27 You: I'm
3:27 Caller: If we go to Elliot at the end and say, that's changed, there's going to be a question as to why.
3:28 You: You know,
3:29 You: I'm sorry,
3:30 You: you know,
3:31 You: I'm
3:32 You: I don't know
3:33 You: I'm
3:34 You: I'm
3:34 Caller: Okay? That's where these other offers come in as the reason.
3:35 You: I'm
3:36 You: I'm
3:37 You: I'm
3:39 You: I'm
3:39 Caller: It's like, okay, look, you've got a better offer. So we need, if it comes to it, and you're like, I want, I'm not saying you're going to do this, but you're like, I want more than that to accept earlier at the end.
3:40 You: I'm
3:41 You: I'm
3:42 You: I'm
3:43 You: I'm
3:44 You: I'm
3:45 You: I'm
3:46 You: I'm
3:47 You: I'm
3:48 You: I'm
3:49 You: I'm
3:50 You: I'm
3:51 You: I'm
3:52 You: on
3:54 You: on
3:55 You: I'm
3:56 Caller: The natural question on their side.
3:57 Caller: is, okay, what's changed? And that's when we need to be like, look, this has changed.
3:59 You: I'm
4:00 You: and
4:01 You: I'm
4:02 You: I'm
4:02 Caller: There's offers on the table, and they're this, and this is why it's changed, and this is what,
4:03 You: on
4:04 You: I'm
4:05 You: on
4:07 Caller: you know, it's not a catch-you-out situation. We're not trying to get you out, like,
4:07 You: I'm
4:08 You: Thank you.
4:14 Caller: less money. We're trying to get you more. We're trying to help, like, get you the best.
4:20 Caller: And if a number has been consistent throughout, if you put yourself in Elliot's shoes, a number
4:27 Caller: has been consistent throughout in good faith. We've all discussed the number and it changes.
4:32 Caller: There's always going to be that question as to why at the end. So look, if you if you don't want to
4:37 Caller: share it right now, that's fine. I'm just saying that when it comes to tomorrow, if you're
4:38 You: So, you know,
4:40 You: I'm going to
4:42 You: I'm going to
4:43 You: You know,
4:43 Caller: deciding tomorrow, and hopefully you do, but if you don't, that's also fine, that you've met Brett,
4:45 You: I'm going to
4:46 You: and
4:47 You: the
4:48 You: I'm
4:48 Caller: you've met Eli, and you do actually feel that it's your preferred role. But if for any
4:50 You: Okay. I'll meet to be simple then. I'll make it simple then. I acknowledge.
4:57 Caller: reason at that point you feel the competitiveness of the number you've been discussing with
5:02 Caller: Graham versus what you've got on the table is not there. We would need to know, okay,
5:08 Caller: what's going to get you there and then explaining for Elliot, like, why it's changed. That's
5:14 Caller: all I'm saying. I'm not saying, like, does that make sense? Sorry? Yeah. Okay.
5:20 You: I acknowledge, for me to go away from every process today is an offer at 600,000 first year.
5:27 You: I don't know how unreasonable that is to Elliot, but seeing as the role was originally booked as 400 to 700,000 total comp,
5:27 Caller: I don't know.
5:33 You: I acknowledge it's higher than their median, but I don't think it's unex, what's the term, unreasonably high,
5:41 You: especially if the scope of the role, according to the first interview I had with Brett, does expand.
5:47 You: So that's something I will confirm tomorrow afternoon or so, possibly also on the walk back from wherever this lunch is to the Elliott offices.
5:57 Caller: So you've been told to the range of four to 700, sorry. Is that what you're saying?
5:57 You: The second part is at the risk of showing my hubris.
6:05 You: The range from the job description that I was given showed 400 to 700.
6:10 You: So if Elliot wants me to stop all other processes, tell them a solid now.
6:17 You: So in order to accept Elliott's, that's a $600,000 ask from me.
6:22 You: And that's strictly to stop everything else.
6:26 You: I acknowledge. You're good at closing at 500. That's what your LinkedIn says. So I assume it's well within your reach.
6:27 Caller: Okay.
6:34 You: And if not, it's a new record you get to tout. Now, the headline number, the other fund, is 500,000 first year.
6:42 You: There is a clawback provision, so it's not 500,000 in the bank first year.
6:47 You: Does that make sense? A portion of it is invested into the fund and paid out over, I think, it's three years.
6:57 Caller: Is that something you can share?
6:58 You: I don't have the precise number. That's the question I'm still out. I still have out to them. That offer came in on Thursday, but I was celebrating the weekend. So I'm waiting for their response.
6:59 Caller: Okay.
7:01 Caller: Okay.
7:04 Caller: Yeah.
7:08 You: The headline number I have from here is 500. So it's basically very heavily weighted to the base. You know how funds go. And then this is
7:08 Caller: Yeah.
7:09 Caller: Yeah.
7:17 You: some amount of that bonus that is set up.
7:21 You: I don't know what amount, but some amount of it will be invested into the fund and paid out over some period of time.
7:27 You: The remaining are similarly valid.
7:27 Caller: Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I apologize if you were incorrectly advised, but four to, there wasn't a four, 700 range by that. That's not a range I've ever been given by earlier. I'm not saying you can't get. Yeah. Okay. Well, well, if you, I'm not saying you weren't told that or that or that you don't have been given on email. I'm just saying you weren't told that or that you don't have it on email. I'm just saying.
7:33 You: I'll look through my email. I'll look through my email. Don't worry. Don't worry. I'll find. I'll look through my email. Don't worry. I'll find. I'll find. I'll look through my email. Don't worry. I'll
7:47 You: it.
7:57 Caller: And that wasn't a range I was given. They don't tend to give ranges of that that are as wide as that, as you can probably understand. But like, in, okay. So the problem, not a problem, but the thing that's difficult here is you obviously haven't. Like, as far as I'm not, sorry?
8:17 You: Are you trying to get over?
8:21 You: What objections are you trying to get ahead of?
8:23 You: I know you're trying to get ahead of those objections.
8:25 You: What are they specifically?
8:26 You: Is it the sticker shock?
8:27 Caller: No, it's, it's, it's, it's not so much, no, it's not an objection, okay? It's, it's the, like if you are happy tomorrow, you, you know, you come out of it, feeling like it's the right opportunity. It's at that point that if we're negotiating beyond the number we've been telling them the whole time, we just need that point of
8:28 You: Is it the uncertainty about the price?
8:31 You: Is it?
8:47 You: Thank you.
8:56 Caller: point of reference to be like, look, we will, this is us like very much on your side.
9:04 Caller: I'm not, we don't, it's not nosyness. It's not because we care per se what other companies are
9:11 Caller: offering. It's to give justification to Elliot to say, look, there's offers here. This is what
9:17 You: Thank you.
9:19 Caller: they look like. Okay. So if it comes to it, some are you tell us that original number we've been
9:25 Caller: discussing the whole time doesn't work anymore for you to take the Elliott role and that's
9:31 Caller: an if I'm not saying you're going to say that we just need a reason we need to go back and say look
9:36 Caller: that's because this has landed and this is what it looks like with another firm but Jed prefers you guys
9:42 Caller: so if you can do that or do some or do a new number that we discuss to get closer to it it will go with you
9:47 You: Thank you.
9:50 Caller: if we're in that position tomorrow I'm just that that's all I'm saying we
9:55 Caller: might not be in that position. You might come out of tomorrow and not think that Elliot is
10:01 Caller: your preference, right? There's a whole conversation you've got to have still with Brett and
10:06 Caller: Eli based on what you and I discussed last time about understanding further scope, getting to the
10:13 Caller: bottom of like what happens after you deliver on the SDLC. But that was kind of my point
10:17 You: Okay.
10:20 Caller: to Graham to kind of set that expectation as to how we would have to approach.
10:25 Caller: that if it gets to that I hope that kind of makes sense to you.
10:32 You: How confident are you at Elliot accepting what?
10:32 Caller: I'm not very confident on that specific number. Is that really, is that what it's going to take? Because that is quite a big step change.
10:36 You: Accepting what, from their perspective,
10:38 You: from their perspective, would be a 50% increase?
10:47 You: I acknowledge it's a big step change.
10:52 Caller: And again, it is it.
10:54 You: In exchange, it is a guarantee to Elliot that I sign with them.
10:59 Caller: But how...
11:00 You: If they want me to continue evaluating the other offers that I have, then whatever they can present
11:07 You: prior to or on July 10, that is pretty much my deadline to decide for the longest waiting offer.
11:14 You: Does that make sense?
11:19 You: So I'm trying, I'm trying to help so that I can give a fair shape.
11:22 Caller: that you were going to go in tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, no. Look, I thought you were going in tomorrow to
11:30 Caller: determine if this is the role you want or not. So I'm a little surprised that we're talking about
11:38 Caller: a definitive number that you would take at this point. I didn't think you were at that point
11:40 You: I acknowledge.
11:42 You: I acknowledge.
11:43 Caller: with them. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
11:44 You: spoke, I didn't have any offers, and then three landed. So now I have a better sense
11:49 You: of how my skills, knowledge, and experience are valued. So I acknowledge the $600,000 is stretch
11:52 Caller: Yeah.
11:55 You: from that group. That is the premium for me to drop the group out right. Don't even look at them
11:59 Caller: Okay. But do you feel that that could change after tomorrow?
12:00 You: further. So if that's too high, I acknowledge.
12:09 Caller: After you learn more about the role and you learn more about Elliot and Brett and Brett's plans for you?
12:14 You: Yes, because the original scope from the job description Graham gave me at the beginning
12:19 Caller: Okay.
12:20 Caller: So it...
12:21 You: of the month is as far as I can tell now narrower than from what happened my first conversation with Brett
12:29 You: on the 12th. So one of the follow-up questions I have for him is, in what ways beyond the job description
12:34 You: that I'll be presenting him at lunch, has the role changed? Or do you intend to change the role? It may have,
12:40 You: it may not. But that's something I intend to suss out.
12:44 You: tomorrow afternoon. It feels arbitrary. I acknowledge it feels arbitrary. I acknowledge
12:50 Caller: the thing about the number right now is it is it a bit arbitrary given you haven't had that meeting yet.
12:58 Caller: I'm not, I'm not, I'm honestly not going to go to Elliot. Sorry?
13:03 You: it feels arbitrary. I acknowledge it feels arbitrary. And it is. That's the premium that I would want to charge
13:05 Caller: Yeah.
13:07 You: in order to drop all of my other processes. If Elliott cannot produce an offer by the 10th,
13:08 Caller: Yeah.
13:13 You: That's okay. I choose from what I have because I don't know that I can try their patients further.
13:20 Caller: Yeah. The deadline is a separate conversation. I'll make them aware of that, okay? Like a deadline. I'm talking about the number. I'm talking about the number. Like, why are we talking about a definitive number today when you've still got to go in tomorrow and meet them? Like, are you saying, are you pre-set on this number now or are you going to assess this tomorrow once you've met them? Because I, I, I,
13:43 You: The number is predicated on me sitting in a role where the team expanded from 5 to 7, where the mandate is beyond simply SDLC and also their
13:50 Caller: But, you know, the...
14:02 You: adapt sandboxing environment. I don't know if Brad or Jim mentioned that to you. And then on top of
14:11 You: other AI initiatives that, what was his name?
14:15 You: Was it David? David hinted at that they were pursuing in the UK office.
14:20 You: So if the scope truly does expand that, then that's something I'd want to assess.
14:20 Caller: As in the...
14:22 Caller: Yeah.
14:28 You: I have a, I think it's a two-hour block lunch, so I should be able to have time to go over it between courses.
14:35 Caller: But, yeah, but, yeah, I'm just trying to understand where the numbers come from
14:39 Caller: to understand where the numbers come from before you've even done.
14:41 You: Okay, the 500 number is my current.
14:44 Caller: Like, are we, because, are we...
14:47 Caller: Is this now your number no matter what tomorrow?
14:50 Caller: or are we going to revisit this tomorrow and actually talk about how you feel tomorrow and then talk about, you know, what you think you would, you would, you would, you would potentially take from Elliot's to take you off the market and say no to the others?
15:11 You: To do that today, 600. To do that on Wednesday depends on what happens at lunch. It can very well go down. I don't know how much of a case I can offer. That depends entirely on how Brett's vision of the role shifted, if it shifted, since I first spoke with him three weeks ago now, I think.
15:20 Caller: Yeah.
15:35 Caller: Okay.
15:36 You: And I assume Elliot moves fast enough that a role can shift in that time.
15:41 You: Is that a safe assumption?
15:50 Caller: Look, I'm going to let them know about the date and that you have offers, okay, because they need to know. They need to understand that. But if we are in a position tomorrow where we're renegotiating on an original number given, I hope you can see why we would then need to then need to share details as to what
16:11 You: So.
16:20 Caller: you've got on the table to say to them, look, this is the reason.
16:27 Caller: It's not you just asking for it for the sake of it, is because there's other things on the table.
16:33 Caller: And this is what they look like.
16:35 Caller: Otherwise, I think their hands could be tied, if that makes sense.
16:40 Caller: Sorry.
16:41 You: The list of things you would bring is a private equity firm whose structure is base plus carry that would come out to around 500,000 a year on a far enough basis. It's private equity, so they move in six-year cycles, roughly.
16:50 Caller: I don't know.
16:57 You: A hedge fund where first-year bonus and base will bring it to 500,000 a year. And then a startup with a large enough grant that I'm still trying to diligence myself because I don't yet know their preference stack.
17:10 You: preference stack in case you don't know. Do you know what a preference stack is first?
17:18 You: Okay. In venture capital, a preference is the money that an investor receives before the sale of a company's
17:20 Caller: Yeah.
17:27 You: proceeds are distributed to what are called the common shareholders, everyone else. So if a preference stack is
17:33 You: 2x, that means that an investor who put in $10 million gets paid $20 million of the sale before
17:40 You: the remaining is distributed among the shareholders, of which I would be won. That's me trying to model sits.
17:50 Caller: All I would ask is, if you're willing to just say this over the phone, to sort of get us our ducks in a row, get us in a position to hopefully, hopefully you come away excited about the role, to hopefully you come away excited about the role tomorrow, to get straight into the negotiating and get us in a good position to justify potentially here changing things at that point on what we've been communicating throughout.
18:10 You: Thank you.
18:18 Caller: And I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong.
18:20 Caller: But we, we, can you email me this over with those breakdowns?
18:27 Caller: You know, I won't necessarily, I don't even need to necessarily send it on today.
18:32 Caller: I just want to be in a position to confidently talk to them to get you a good outcome.
18:39 Caller: And that's all I'm trying to do.
18:40 You: Thank you.
18:41 You: Thank you.
18:41 Caller: That's all Graham's trying to do.
18:42 Caller: If it's come across in a clumsy way, apologies.
18:43 You: Thank you.
18:44 You: Thank you.
18:45 You: Thank you.
18:46 Caller: But that's fundamentally all we care about.
18:47 You: Thank you.
18:49 You: Thank you.
18:49 Caller: The reason, like, I'm not pushing on numbers, to be honest with you, is I was just going to, we were just kind of interested in letting you go in tomorrow and do what you feel you need to do to come back to us with thumbs up or down to say, yeah, this is the role I want or no, actually, I prefer another role, and this is the reason.
19:13 Caller: And no hard feelings either way.
19:15 Caller: But if we're talking about tomorrow,
19:19 You: Thank you.
19:19 Caller: having to go to them after it, which sounds likely now, and say, look, it's not 400 anymore,
19:26 Caller: I just need you to email me these details, be like, look, this one's offered me, this base and bonus,
19:32 Caller: this is what it comes to, it's just an optics transparency thing, and you'll get a better offer for it.
19:39 Caller: If they feel that you're trying to not do that, that you probably won't get as good an offer.
19:46 Caller: It's all it is.
19:47 Caller: It's not in any way meant in a way to inconvenience you to put you in a bad bargaining position.
19:49 You: Then you understand, then you understand, the highest, the highest offer that I have the highest offer that I have at the moment.
19:55 Caller: We know, we do this all the time with, with Elia and other funds.
19:58 Caller: We know how they work and think.
20:01 Caller: I just ask that you trust us a bit on that.
20:04 You: the highest offer that I have at the moment on a first year cash basis is that $500,000 from a hedge fund, not, not, not Elliott, a different hedge fund.
20:13 Caller: And what reminds me asking me, because Jim will probably ask me, like,
20:13 You: Base for that fund, fine, base is $200,000, and then the first year guaranteed at $300.
20:17 Caller: what is what's the base and bonus component just so I'm aware sorry
20:26 Caller: and when do you get paid that bonus? Oh, okay. Okay, okay. So 200k base and
20:36 You: I didn't ask. I didn't ask. I assume it'll be in the first quarter, 27.
20:43 You: That is my highest cash offer. The P.E. Fund is the highest modeled offer, and that is predicated on a roughly six-year horizon, and that all of the multiple targets and the expansion targets are hit. I don't know the probability of that happening. I'm working on figuring out the modal outcome outcome, the most
20:44 Caller: That's 300K bonus, our hedge fund.
20:49 Caller: Okay.
20:51 Caller: And that's your highest cash offer.
20:53 Caller: So your highest potential offer is higher if things are, sorry?
21:13 You: outcome. So I cannot give a defensible number there. What's that?
21:14 Caller: Okay. And out of those three, out of those three currently, do you have a preferred wrong out of those three?
21:24 You: To the exclusion of Elliot, to the exclusion of Elliot, I'd probably go with the PE firm if I had to pick only those three.
21:25 Caller: Do you think if, you know, if you had to pick today?
21:30 Caller: No, no.
21:36 Caller: And if any, it was in the equation, currently, how you feel about things?
21:43 You: To unseat the private equity firm, I would want to understand how restrictive personal investing is and how restrictive the IP clause is. I recognize Elliott has trade secrets in their software. I acknowledge that. And I also have my own IP and my own tooling and things that I build on my own time and resources. I do not want those to be restricted. If there are restrictions, I want to figure out what they are precisely so that I can see to what extent I have.
21:44 Caller: Yeah.
22:13 You: can either work around or through them. Brett did this for millennium, according to Graham, so I assume he can do it at Elliott.
22:14 Caller: Brett. Yes, Brett's X Millennium. Sorry. Sorry? Yeah.
22:25 You: And for what it's worth, these are open source projects. So as long as, these are open source projects as well. So as long as Elliot follows the licensing, and these are MIT license. So it's not anything onerous. I'm not really concerned beyond that. There are more
22:43 You: because the cost of writing code is cheap, I'm not really concerned.
22:44 Caller: Okay. Okay. Okay. So, okay. So obviously, look, I think there's a few things to speak to speak to Brett about tomorrow, including the things you just mentioned, plus the role and the scope and the opportunity. And I think post that lunch and Eli's meeting,
22:48 You: It's more, what's the term, proof of ability than a trade secret at that point.
23:13 Caller: let's let's let's let's speak again post it and see where you're at and what you're
23:13 You: I'm home.
23:18 Caller: thinking and if you if we if we've got a conversation here or not um if we don't it's all the
23:25 Caller: moot point anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um, all right. Um, um, no, that's, uh,
23:26 You: I'm home around 3 o'clock Eastern, so I believe that is 9 o'clock Eastern. So I believe that is 9 p.m. UK.
23:42 Caller: Three o'clock, eight p.m. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Okay. Yeah, okay, fine. Look, um, I think Graham's spoken to you about, you know, the meet. I don't need to go over the meeting with Brett. You know, Graham's obviously covered that off of you, what you plan to ask, what you want to know, how, you know, and, and look, you'll, you'll do that. And, um, hopefully there's good synergy. You get on and you're happy and, but you might not be. And these things happen, right?
23:43 You: Thank you.
24:12 Caller: But like, um, again, I just want to clarify anything we ask you is to help us better represent and back for you. Not any other reason. Um, so I hope, like, you can see that even if, you know, a hope, yeah, that's, that's just what I want to re-clarify with you, Jed, is we're just trying to help.
24:13 You: Thank you.
24:40 Caller: And maybe it's, it's in a way that, you know, that's, that's just what I want to re-clarify with you, Jed, Jed, Jed, is we're just trying to help.
24:40 Caller: And maybe it's in a way that needs explaining better from our side as to why we're asking things.
24:43 You: Sounds good.
24:48 Caller: Um, but that's, there's always a reason we're asking is to be in a position to best represent you and get our ducks in a row to help you and no other reason.
25:01 Caller: Um, but yeah. All right. Um, look, enjoy tomorrow. Good luck. I hope it goes well. Um, and we'll, um, and we'll, um,
25:10 Caller: Um, you know, we'll catch up tomorrow.
25:13 You: Thank you, Ben, for clarifying everything. And my apology is if I came off too stiff.
25:14 Caller: All right.
25:16 Caller: Awesome.
25:17 Caller: No, no, no problem.
25:22 Caller: Don't worry about it. Um, you know, it's fine.
25:25 Caller: You didn't. You honestly didn't.
25:27 Caller: I, but, um, I, yeah, look, I hope, I'm genuinely just, like,
25:33 Caller: Brett is just a genuinely nice, good, smart guy.
25:38 Caller: So as much as anything, you know, hopefully you enjoy it.
25:42 Caller: If the outcome is a good one for you and him, great.
25:43 You: I agree.
25:46 Caller: If it's not, then that's the way it goes.
25:50 Caller: Just, just see.
25:52 Caller: And then we'll talk about how seriously you feel you do or don't want this role.
26:00 Caller: But I think you need to, you need to determine that across tomorrow.
26:07 Caller: Okay.
26:08 Caller: All right. Have a good rest of your day. I'm going to go to bed.
26:13 You: Ben, good night.
26:14 Caller: So, yeah. All right, thanks, Jed. All right. Bye.